Mary Jane Bradley

MJB: Well, I had been teaching nursing at Ohio State previously and then the College of Nursing. And then after a few years, my children were in grade school and I wanted to go back to teaching nursing. So someone told me, ‘you know, there’s a college right near you that has a nursing program.’ And that’s how I came over here. And I was interviewed and hired right away and started here.

ML: Did you have much like expectations for teaching here?

MJB: Well, I had already taught, you know, in a couple places. So, you know, they needed a person that had a background in psychiatry and mental health. And I had that from my graduate programs. And, you know, I was eager to do it. It was a very small department. I think there were only maybe seven faculty at the time, maybe a few more than that. And not very many students, probably about 60 students maybe in person. So, you know, I was glad to come here and try it out.

ML: What got you interested in nursing?

MJB: Oh, in nursing. Oh, well, let’s see. Back in nineteen—in the late 50s when I was in high school, there weren’t too many choices for women. And my mother said, ‘well, you know, you can really be an English teacher or a nurse.’ She said, ‘I think you’d make a really good English teacher.’ So being an adolescent at that age, I went into nursing and I, I got fortunate because it was a perfect match. It was a very good field for me. It worked out very well. In fact, I didn’t retire till I was 68 years old because I loved the students and I loved teaching. And particularly this college was just a wonderful place to practice and teach. So, you know, that’s why I stayed.

ML: What was the hiring process like?

MJB: You know, I remember being interviewed by the—I think at the time, the director of the department. I think that’s what her title was. And I don’t think we had—they had search committees there in the nursing department. And then I was interviewed by Ernie Muntz, and he was the dean. And and I was in, you know, a couple of days later, they called me and said, I have the job. So know they needed a person that had a background to teach psychiatry and mental health. And I had quite a bit of experience in that area. So it was pretty simple back then. No search committees and lots of things. I mean, I’m sure I submitted a resume, you know, at that. But it wasn’t complicated, wasn’t difficult, as I remember anyway. But I had taught at the college in nursing. So, you know, that was probably that probably helped, even though it had been a few years before that.

ML: So you said you’re at Ohio State prior?

MJB: Yes. Yes. I got—my graduate school and my undergraduate bachelors was from Ohio State. And then I taught there for a couple of years until my husband got transferred to Cincinnati. And that’s I taught in the school it was a school of nursing, then an Ohio state. And I taught, I taught mental health and human relations in the nursing department. And we had an interdisciplinary course for nursing students, pharmacy students and medical students. And I liked that very much. You know, that was my background in teaching.

ML: So what do you hope your students took away from your classes?

MJB: Oh my. Well, you know, you hope you take a lot away. But our students brought a lot to our classes, you know, they were very motivated. Mostly young women back then, not very many men. And they, they were really hardworking, energetic people. And they were very interested in helping people and taking care of people. And what we did was just build on that kind of urge to add knowledge and skills so that, you know, they were quite good and our students were very good students and, you know, graduated. At that time, we had very good pass rates for the license exam and an excellent reputation in the city. You know, anywhere we wanted to go and have our students have clinical practice, they were always eager to have them because they were very hardworking students and well motivated and very responsible. Now, fortunately, you forget the ones that maybe weren’t quite that good. But, you know, even now, I meet students, because I do some workshops with Hospice of Cincinnati and they’re for practicing nurses. And so I meet some that come back and say, ‘oh, I remember I had you at such and such a year,’ you know. And they’re still practicing nursing and they’re quite enthusiastic about what they learned in the program here. So it’s been quite successful, I think, really. I’m so glad and fortunate to be a part of it, really.

ML: Did you face any challenges throughout your teaching?

MJB: Oh, yeah, of course you do. You know, that’s part of it. I mentioned to you that when I came here, I think I said that in the paper that I filled out. When I first came here of the female departments had appointed heads and the rest of the departments in the college selected their chairs. And that was kind of like not uncommon in the late 70s. And somehow the climate, I think in the city, I said, I remember there were three of us, I think, that went to this presentation by somebody, maybe Jean Baker Miller. She had written a book about the psychology of women in education and that sort of thing. And she did a presentation here. And then Gloria Steinem did a presentation. And they both happened within about a year, within the same year. And it kind of gave us—some of us the idea that, you know, we should be running our own department just like history and psychology and those other things. And so I remember we talked to the dean, to Ernie about it, and he just sat there and kind of smiled. And it was sort of like, ‘well, ladies, if you think you want to do this, let’s see how you manage it.’ You know, he wasn’t in opposition by any means, but you’re going to do it for us, you know. So at some point after a year of conversation and convincing each other that indeed we could run a department, it happened. You know, we elected our chairperson and all the structure that goes with it, all the governance structure. But I think, you know, this was a nursing and nurses didn’t have a long history in the university. You know, they started out in in hospitals and not in the academic environment. So there were kind of the youngsters in academe. And so getting to getting to have your own department and elect your own hand and make your own governance structure and write your bylaws and all that business was news to us, you know. So that was a very exciting time, you know, new things to do. And there were some people that were, ‘are you sure we can do this?’ I mean, then come around, say that. But they were kind of reluctant and and hesitant. So, but some of us would like to do the ask about it and knew we could do it. So that was that was a good thing, you know.

ML: Were there any big, like, oppositions to, you know, you all trying to form this department?

MJB: You know, I think there were some people that had misgivings, but I wouldn’t say there was great opposition. There was just sort of lack of confidence, you know, more than anything, just lack of certainty that it could be—that we could do it because, you know, other—well we didn’t have any models, you know, immediately available to us, so, you know, lack of experience and you’re not sure. But, but like I said, the external world environment was such that it was very supportive of that kind of thing. You know, if women taking charge of what they were doing and demonstrating their competence and, you know, and doing it their way, you know—you know, that was—that was in the end, that was good for our students because we were kind of modeling the kind of nursing practice that we wanted them to be able to do. Now, if you can’t run your own business, how can you ever run a unit or, you know, take care of a group of patients or teach people health care? So it kind of played out that way.

ML: So did you feel as though there was more support once the department got running?

MJB: Always I felt there was support. Here in the college, there was support, you know. You know, this college had kind of a unique beginning in that sense, I think. When I came here, I shared an office with a woman in chemistry and all of the faculty had offices with people of different disciplines. So it created a very collegial kind of group that saw the colleges, our students, not just your department students, but the students in the college were your students. And so we had a very cohesive group of people that were quite committed to quality teaching in this in this college. And I think that Ernie Muntz, he put that group of people together initially, you know, early, and that created the kind of an environment that they were very supportive of, of self-government, of any kind of a structure that was going to be supportive to students and help students. And, you know, it was—you could go to other departments and get help with different kinds of things among faculty. And it was very—it also made for a lot of interdisciplinary work. The college committees here worked very well together. And there were people from every department, you know, who did things and everybody had the same goal. So and that was good for our students.

ML: Did you ever feel like there was like its power dynamics between, like the UC Blue Ash and the main campus?

MJB: You know, if there were I didn’t experience it at my level. You know, Ernie was a great dean. I mean, I. I don’t know. He was a dean here for like 20 years and was very supported by the faculty. And so I think kind of, Clifton probably saw this as just kind of like. The college that’s functioning very well, rightly, is slightly out of our realm, you know, 20, 20 minutes away, and probably we’re not giving them any headaches at all. So, you know, I don’t remember any strains. And if there were, they were at a higher level, you know, than I was aware of. So, you know. And we were just growing and growing and growing, you know, and having more and more students and needing more and more buildings, I’m sure that was competition for getting money to, you know, for capital improvements. That was probably a big, you know, where’s the money going to go?

ML: Now, what are your thoughts on that expansion? At UC Blue Ash

MJB: I’m sure we needed it and I’m sure we did it because we were always squeezed for space. You know, classroom space and office space and that sort of thing. So I think it’s nothing but good. And also, we were inclined to be very adaptive to what students needed in terms of—I mean, almost all our students have you know, they have families, they had jobs. They have all kinds of responsibilities other than just going to school. So we had to be quite accommodating. You know, the hours and—I remember in nursing, we started offering an evening clinical section so that students who had jobs that had families could still have—In fact, that’s what I was taught here one quarter part time because we were on quarters then. And that was one of the things they wanted, was someone who would teach in the evenings, teach a clinical nursing course in the evening. And I thought that be great. My children need to see that their dad can feed them dinner and put him to bed and do all those kinds of things that I did. And so I took on the evening program. I enjoyed it. And we were always had more students that wanted it than we had spaces for, you know. So that was a good thing, a good thing for students.

ML: Well, was the largest class size that you taught?

MJB: Well, our class size probably. I—you know, I’m not sure. I would say maybe 40, but our clinical groups were 10 or 12. So the clinical students that you really had the closest contact with was a much smaller group, you know, when you spent quite a bit of time with them, you know, so. As we increased students, we had to increase faculty because you had to have a faculty member with every 10 or 12 students in the clinical setting. So as the student population grew, the faculty grew in the department. And I don’t know how big it is now. I don’t know. I’m sure it’s bigger than seven. Yeah, it’s probably 25. Something like maybe. I don’t know, I, I’m just guessing.

ML: Yeah, so do you have any, like, core values or principles that you want to instill in the students?

MJB: Well, probably the core values that we wanted students to have had to do with their care and compassion for sick people, you know, for for the patients they encountered and that they had to bring competence, you know, skill and competence to what they were doing, because it’s one thing to be kind but kind—kindness with knowledge about what helps people when they’re sick, you know, that’s what people need. So, you know, we wanted them to value learning. And lifelong learning was a requirement in nursing. And as it is in all of health care. And, you know, we kept pushing that, I’m sure. But they recognized that, you know, if you’re in practice, you recognized right away how important it is to keep up, you know, and current current science and that kind of thing. Compassion without competence doesn’t cut it when people are really sick, they want to make that really knows what’s—what they’re doing. So.

ML: Yeah. So did you—were you able to form relationships with colleagues outside your department?

MJB: Oh yes, but I need to take a drink of water first. You know, it’s one thing when you’re teaching and you’re used to talking a lot like this, but. Well, like I said, the structure of the college itself facilitated that, you know, because sharing offices with people in different disciplines, you know, that was the first thing. And then, like college committees were made up of people from all different departments. So, you know, you immediately develop good working relationships with with people in other disciplines. And that was a real strength of the college, because then you have a group of faculty that are from all different disciplines, but very cohesive about what they’re trying to do here, you know, what their, what their primary mission was. And the staff was, I should say that, too, because the staff was very supportive and committed to quality. I remember—I just saw Kathy Schmoll over at a bird shop over in Montgomery, and she was one of the advisors for students then. And, you know, she was every bit as committed to figuring out how can we schedule this student into this section so she can still pick up her kids after school, but, you know, that kind of thing. So there was a real a real commitment on the part of the staff to support the students, you know, all of our students. That was a real strength. I’m sure that still is a strength of a college.

ML: Yes. So did any administration, like, or deans, like stand out to you throughout your time?

MJB: Ernie was, you know, hard a hard act to follow. I think Barbara Bardes was also an excellent dean for this college. You know, she shared some of Ernie’s qualities in that you seek out people that have talent, but then you let them develop and do the kinds of things that they’re good at and then you, you know, have pretty successful administration. And she was that way also, I think very much so.

ML: Was there ever a time where an incident or an event was handled poorly by UC.

MJB: That’s wonderful, When you’re getting older, you forget things that aren’t so enjoyable? I’m sure there were, because we did have a dean here and I can’t even remember his name. I just remember that it wasn’t going to work out and it didn’t. And we had the support of Clifton administration to remove that dean. And one of the—some of the other people on the list will remember—I can’t remember his name, but it didn’t work well for the university, you know, and for us, it just wasn’t wasn’t a good fit at all. And no, he didn’t stay long and we had a rent-a-dean right after that, until we did another search. And then I think that’s when Barbara Bardes came in. I think. It didn’t work well.

ML: So how has the faculty changed over time?

MJB: Well, there are more of them, definitely, and I think they’re better prepared, better educated, you know, a lot of strength that way. But then that’s also has to do with the progress of nursing. You know, advanced degrees in nursing are much more common than they were when I had a masters degree. You know, there were very few master’s programs in the country then. And now, you know, there’s doctoral—doctorates in nursing and that sort of thing. So the faculty generally has more education, more opportunities. Certifications became very common. Well, that sort of thing. So they’re more skilled practitioners, and then you have the opportunity to have students get better exposure and better learning.

ML: Did you ever participate in research?

MJB: Excuse me. Let me take another drink, my throat is [grunts]. Not to any degree that I think was you know—we did some studies of our students and some things about what they, you know, what they needed to support them in the program, you know. I mean, other than learning what the kinds of resources they need, that sort of thing, but not really. No, I really didn’t—no I was more involved. I think I probably the thing that I got involved the most with that was relatively new was teaching about hospice and palliative care, because that didn’t start in this country until 1974, I think was the first hospice in the United States and—Cincinnati—in Cincinnati, Hospice of Cincinnati was probably the first place, it’s a non—you know, nonprofit hospice, but there were no undergraduate programs that required students to learn about hospice and palliative care. And then in about—in the late 90s, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation started funding education for nursing faculty to be able to teach that. And so our program—two of us from our program, got fellowships to go to a project at City of Hope in California and L.A. and, and get prepared to teach hospice and palliative care. So when I came back here, I thought, ‘Okay, we’ve got to have this course and ask to be a required undergraduate course for nursing students.’ And so we did that. We were the only place in the city that had them for undergraduate nursing students. And we started with Hospice of Cincinnati as an inpatient learning experience and to go into people’s homes also because a lot of hospice care was—is done, even now in people’s homes. So that was quite a big project to change your curriculum and put that in as a requirement. And that was about I think we started at around 2000 and one or two something like.

ML: So how does the university form, like relationships with like the hospitals to be able to send, like the students out there?

MJB: You make contracts.

ML: Contracts?

MJB: Contracts with all different health care agencies. When I left—let’s see I retired in 2010, and about that time we had contracts with 63 health care facilities to have students there for learning. So you’re go, you have a meeting and you talk about what your students are qualified to do and what their requirements are, what they need. You know, what kind of supervision you will provide your students, because we always had faculty onsite supervising students. And you meet beforehand and you meet afterwards and you evaluate, and you talk about how are you going to make it better, and and what’s the best benefit for students to come to that institution? So we were pretty selective, actually. I thought that 62 contract sounds like a lot when you think of all the places that people get health care, that’s not really too many places. Every every major city in the hospital—or every hospital in the city we had contracts with. I know. You negotiate contract, you know. Many a visit have I done that. [Laughs]

ML: Were there any times where UC, like, withdrew their contracts with certain university, or not— certain hospitals?

MJB: I mean, there were there were a few instances where the quality of the nursing care that the students were seeing, we did not think was good. And we removed our students from those agencies. You know, fortunately, there weren’t many, you know, that’s a pretty big deal, you know, to do that. But, but when you’re trying to teach people to do things, you want them to see the best care there is so that that sets the standard, you know, for what they would do in their own practice. And that’s what we were looking for. And in most cases, agencies that have students in practice do see the quality of care that gets better. It’s sort of like, well, I was going to say sort of like playing golf, I was thinking about yesterday, when you play golf with people that are really good, you tend to do better. So when students see nurses in practice that are really good, they tend to practice better. That was our goal.

ML: Nice. So I guess back to research, did you ever feel like as time went on that the university was more became more research focused? Because I know on campus some faculty and students like—

MJB: [Coughs] They are. Yeah, research focused, you know, and I mean, evidence based practice is absolutely whatwe need in all of health care. So, you know, the research focus is definitely a need. You know, the difficulty is taking that research and applying it to practice. You know, how do you get from the theoretical on the data that you found, and the ideas that that you supported with scientific data, and then how do you get that back into practice? That’s the big challenge. But. You know, I was never directly involved—except at my first job, I was involved in research because and my first job in nursing was at Ohio State, in University Hospital, in the operating room. And they did lots of research there all the time. You know, I remember once was the on hand washing. And to this day, my kids—my children, who are now 50 and 48, tell me ‘we remember Mom, we know how to wash our hands, we know how to wash our hands.’ Because we did the study by hand washing and what kind of soap worked best and whether you should use hot water, cold water, all this kind of stuff, you know. But that was me as a subject in that part of the thing. We wash our hands and then they’d swap our hands and, you know, try to grow the organisms in petri dishes and see what how clean our hands were when we were working in the operating room. No, no. That was evidence based practice. Yeah.

ML: Yeah. So how old were, oh. Were you going to say something?

MJB: Well, I still I think the university focusing on, you know, more research is good for us. You have to balance it, though, with quality teaching. I mean, because otherwise you don’t bridge the—you don’t get down to how do you apply the research to everyday education, you know, to what you’re trying to teach your students here. And I think the emphasis was always on quality teaching. And that was the major emphasis. Now that were research projects on teaching, you know, and quality teaching and what constitutes effective classroom environment and that sort of thing, you know, that was always worth doing.

ML: So how has the campus become more diverse over time?

MJB: Oh, I suppose—I mean, I know it became more diverse, but why? I guess because it was just a major push to make it more diverse, you know, to make it available. But I think when we make it available at different hours to people. You’re going to get a more diverse population. When you have a lot of really good support services for students, you know, tutoring services and that sort of thing, you can get a more diverse population. And that was always the strength of this college. You know, the student services were really good and we had a language lab, but an English lab and a math lab and, you know, students for students to get help with their courses in those disciplines and that, you know, made for a more diverse population now. And I think in health care, I mean, you recognize the population you’re serving, is very diverse set of people doing it have to be diverse to fit better with the population you’re serving, so.

ML: How technology impacted the way that you’ve taught over time.

I think probably resources are more readily available to students. Because I was thinking one of the one of the later things was when they had—well, they weren’t smartphones then—but they had access readily to computerized information about drugs and pharmacology. That became really important because you can’t carry in your head the information about all the medications that people receive. So you have to have reliable access to that kind of thing and quickly in a very efficient kind of way. So the technology used in health care really impacted, you know, students in clinical settings. I think in the classroom, it did too, in that you could do video demonstrations of what you were trying to teach. And, you know, you can slow it down and go through it step by step. And then you can have students demonstrate it. You can use videos for for roleplaying and for that kind of thing, and then go back over it and say, ‘okay, see the interaction and what you did and what you said.’ And, you know, that sort of thing. So that impacted. Oh, what else. But I don’t think you could ever replace the face to face, hands on interaction that students have with patients. You know, that’s the real pieces are in the human interaction. But it’s great to learn all about it, you know, on—in different formats as well as doing it yourself. Some students just have to do it themselves to learn they can’t learn from videos, so.

ML: Did you ever see technology as like a distraction in the classroom for students?

MJB: See what? I’m sorry.

ML: Was technology ever like a distraction to students in the classroom?

MJB: Now, I remember cell phones. We used to tell students they had to leave their cell phones in the conference room when they went to take our patients because they couldn’t be answering their phones. But that was you know, that’s probably the only distraction. You know, I think I don’t think that it was really it was mostly helpful.

ML: Yeah. So you didn’t see any, like, much of a disconnect?

MJB: No, not during—but see, I’ve been retired for almost 10 years and I think things have changed a lot since then. So, no, I really didn’t think that you’d have to talk to somebody that’s teaching right now to see that. I think. No. [Drinks water]

ML: Pretty good?

MJB: I’m not used to talking this much.

ML: [Laughs] So do you have any thoughts on the unionization of faculty?

MJB: The what?

ML: The union, the unionization?

MJB: The AAUP? Well, I was really involved in that for years here because this was a strong—a strong base for the AAUP in the 70s and—not 70s, maybe in the 80s and 90s, that sort of thing. I’m sure there were—I mean, I know there were advantages definitely to that. At that time I’m trying to think of what you know, what the issues were. I mean, I’m sure there are issues of workload and compensation and benefits and all that kind of thing, which is what you know, usually is the focus of any kind of an organization of of people that are doing the work. I thought we did a lot of good and how to the focus of teaching the students, you know, that that was what we were really about was high quality education. So a lot of competition for dollars. And so making sure your money is going for that purpose, you know, that was always an issue. And yeah, on the other hand, you couldn’t expect people to be working—and the workload issues were great because people kept track of how many hours you really spend—you recently spent so many hours in the classroom, but there’s a whole lot more to teaching than just being a classroom. So, you know, that was a big issue. You know, we always worked on it. I thought it was a strength, definitely a strength. It also helped dialogue in, when there’s when there’s conflict. If you, if people feel confident in their position, like, I think tenured faculty feel, they can take opposite positions without risking their own future. And so that kind of a disagreement is really important for the life of any, any institution, I think. It makes for a better place for people to have different points of view and diverse points of view and have a lot of respect and expression for those points of view. So you can come up with something that’s better. But I think that AAUP supported that kind of thing very much that that was a long time ago. I haven’t thought about it for, for, ten years or more than that, really.

ML: So how do you think the whole union would have been shaped if more people were able to voice their opinions, their perspective, without, you know, risking their job or something like that?

MJB: I really don’t know how to answer that. I hadn’t thought about that at all because, well, I always felt that we didn’t have the opportunity to express different opinions and try to come to some resolution. That was a good, a good fit for your goals, because you’ve got to keep in mind what is your desired outcome, which is that you’re really trying to get? You know, or have accomplished? It’s got to incorporate lots of different perspectives in order to do that. And—well, I don’t I don’t really know how to answer that.

ML: So did you participate in any of the strikes?

MJB: Oh yes. Oh, definitely, yes. Every one of them, yes. Yes. I participated in lots of ways of making signs, carrying signs, distributing donuts, coffee refills of that sort of thing now. Figuring out ways that we were going to provide our students with good nursing education at the same time as having a strike is a real challenge. You know, because their lives were going on and the school was going to end and the quarter was going to be over and they needed credit for courses and they needed the opportunity to learn the things they had to learn. In the meantime, while you were carrying on a strike at the university and that was always a challenge, you know, that was hard to do. I remember having classes in my basement.

ML: Did you face any huge opposition to the union or did they really like—

MJB: Not here. [IN in audible] No, not here. And I think that’s because this was a very collegial environment where there wasn’t a lot of conflict. There wasn’t much conflict at all between the administration and the faculty. It was a very together place. So, you know, we really didn’t.

ML: Yeah. Why do you think people there would be people against the union?

MJB: Well, I guess that tends to dilute the power in an organization and spread it among everybody rather than just at the head. So if you’re trying to keep control of everything, a union, you know—and I think it’s probably well, I don’t know how it affects outcomes, really, except that if you have a lot of people that are working together on the same project and they have the same goals, you know, if you can keep them all together. And yet there are individual, they’re people. So there needs have to be met. I mean, they in order to function at their best, they have to have their needs met. So now that’s the art in there is matching the people with projects and activities and that sort of thing. So I don’t know, I think probably it’s got to do with power unions tend to dilute the power of the organization and spread it around to the people that belong to it. So.

ML: Yeah, so did you face any challenges with, like, the transition of UC from a like a municipal to a state school?

MJB: You know, I remember when that happened, I think it was 1970? Was it around that time? But no, I don’t remember that. And I think I wasn’t—you know, I was just a beginning instructor then and I wasn’t paying that much close attention to what was going on at that level. You know, I thought it was absolutely terrific that Cincinnati had supported a college, you know, for so long, way ahead of lots of other cities in the country. And I think New York University and the University of Cincinnati were—there were very few city colleges, you know, that actually—and I think that’s a great part of its history. You know, it means that there’s always been a cadre of people that valued higher education, you know, in this area. And that’s a strength of the city, strength of the community. I said I cried all the way—I told you from Columbus to here. But after I lived here for a while, I thought, ‘oh, what a blessing that was.’ There was marvelous things in the city that I hadn’t encountered in Columbus. But then it was just a small town, not a great big city like it is now.

ML: Yeah, did any of the faculty that you worked with feel as though like the autonomy of the I guess like the curriculum was like compromised because they had to switch to—from a city toa state?

MJB: I don’t think so. Not that I can, not that I remember. I mean, we were working very hard to make sure that courses that we were offering for an associate degree were accepted in Clifton for baccalaureate programs, you know, and there was a lot of back and forth to do that to—but I don’t think it was an issue in terms of conflict. It was just that you needed to do a lot of work to make it fit, you know. And in terms of becoming a state school, not I don’t remember that at all, that, you know, that’s pretty—there was a lot of enthusiasm for that. One thing I think it meant access to more money. You know, there were more things you could do. So it’s probably the driving force.

MJB: Did you ever feel like UC’s priorities have shifted?

MJB: I never really felt that way, you know, I I didn’t. Well, during the time that I was here. But like I said, I’ve been retired for ten years almost. So no.

ML: So how have you seen UC connect with Cincinnati, or like the community around it?

MJB: Oh, I think some of the leadership in science at the university has really been much more aware of—I guess maybe of the foundations that are actually within the within city, you know, and the community and be very involved in and things in the city. And I think that’s wonderful from my perspective—because in health care, we like I said, we had all these contracts with all these health care agencies around the city. So in a sense, we were already there, you know, in, in a very intimate kind of thing in that we were working with all these different health care agencies. So when the university sees itself as a major player in the well-being of the whole—not just the city, but the whole lot of the counties and and northern Kentucky, that’s good for the university and it’s good for the environment. You know, it’s good for all the people that live in this area. So I think the more involved we are, the better. You know.

ML: So in what ways has UC became more involved in the community?

MJB: I’m sure there are major projects going on in Clifton that hook up people and disciplines with in the community. You know, years ago I was trying to remember when I think it was Ford, maybe. Anyway, there was a big layoff in an industry and Mike and Don would know about this better than I do. And Harriet Florie, she was here then in the 60s, I’m sorry, in the 80s, the late 80s. And people needed a lot of retraining because they were losing jobs. And I think it was Ernie Muntz, and I know Harriet Florie were involved in designing this project called the Work and Learning Council, where we could offer courses that would—on site at some plants. And I, I hesitate to say which—I thought it was Ford and maybe GE—courses that would help people gain new still new skills so that when they were laid off from these jobs, they had some opportunities and some possibilities for other employment. And that was a huge service. And it was also valuable because in a sense, it connected the college here with more of what’s going on in the real world and what are we doing that would help people that, you know, need more education and more skill in a particular area. So, that was when did I say in the 80s? I think sometimes in the 80s. I wasn’t directly involved in that, but I certainly knew a lot about it. I was on the on the council that made up some of the criteria that we needed to use and the courses we needed to offer, that sort of thing. But I never directly did any teaching in or any kind of involvement that way.

ML: Yeah, so some people have this perception that, oh. you can take a drink.

MJB: Always.

ML: You’re good. So some people have this perception that main campus is automatically better than, like Blue Ash or like a community college. Like what, what are your thoughts towards that?

MJB: I guess I didn’t know people had that perception. Well, I think that probably what’s best is what meets students needs, you know. Based on what their work life, their other responsibilities, their goals for themselves. What kind of, of— of education, they’re going for in what disciplines and that sort of thing, but I guess I see them really as very prosperous partnerships. I don’t think it’s necessarily a competition at all. You know, I think it’s one—I remember when, you know, our students can go from an associate degree and more quickly get a bachelors degree. That’s a wonderful thing. But, and at the same time, they can have a job and be able to support themselves and pay for more education. And that’s certainly the advantage that bridges to the college and the university here. Is that what you’re thinking about, what you meant?

ML: Kind of like, I don’t know, because there are so many.

MJB: I think people perceive there’s more research and and that kind of focus in Clifton.

ML: Yeah.

MJB: And I think that’s true. You know, that this is more of a hands on environment, you know, of an immediate teaching, high quality teaching to undergraduate students. You know, but, but there are probably about 5000 of them here, so, you know, you’re meeting a need and it’s pretty important and people have to start someplace, you know, this is a good place to start.

ML: Yeah, it gives you options.

MJB: Yes. A lot of options. Then it accommodates a lot your life so that, you know, you’ve got time to have a job, have a family, have responsibilities and still be educated, improve your life, improve the quality of what you’re doing.

ML: So where do you see the future of UC going?

MJB: Well, I imagine it will continue to be very involved in the life of the community. I mean, the community at large, you know, and I think and in health care and medical research, it’s definitely leading know one of the leading research places that attracts people from not just the city, but, you know, from people from all over the world to come here, and, and study, and live here, can contribute to the quality of what we’ve got. I think it will continue to do that, you know. But we never want to lose sight of the importance of educating that basic undergraduate student to start with, you know, because that’s where it has to start. I think it impacts too, I hope, the quality of education and preschool. One of my children actually went to a preschool here that one of the faculty—and I didn’t know her well. I can’t even remember her name—one of the faculty staff, where they were, where they had a Montessori school in Blue Ash somewhere. This was more than 50 years ago. I remember exactly the details, but it was one of the few Montessori programs around and the faculty member here was owned it and started it, so. You know, that’s a lot different now.

ML: So is there anything else that you want to tell us that we have talked about?

MJB: Well, I don’t think so. No, I still have great regard for this change now, but UC Blue Ash—I keep thinking out of this Raymond Walters College, because that’s what I was almost all of the time that I was here. In fact, it was all the time I was here. No. It’s definitely a strength of the community. You know. I try to remember some dates before we before I came, but—

ML: Were there any, like, important events that happened? At UC?

MJB: I think the things that I have told you about were things that—I mean, they were funny things that happened and, you know, things that. [Coughs] Blue Ash incorporated paid a lot of attention, I think, to how this college was going, and at some point they had there was a planning commission or a planning committee and the college had—I was on that—representative, you know, that went from front of the college to the community because I think that Ernie Muntz recognize the importance of developing closer ties to Blue Ash, to the city, you know, and they were very welcoming, you know, to that idea. And that was that was a good thing to acknowledge in terms of growing and using resources and and that sort of thing. I don’t think I have anything else, you know, it was a lot of talent here, Ernie Muntz was very good about identifying people that had a lot of talent and pulling them together in his administration. And that, and then letting them do their thing really well and supporting that so that helped the college.

ML: So what were your proudest moments? I know in 2006 you received a distinguished teaching award. Tell me about that.

MJB: Oh, that’s right. Yeah, well, you know, if I was a pretty good teacher, yes, I was. But I had really good students. They were motivated and they worked really hard. And that makes for, you know, the opportunity to be a good teacher. You’re trying to do better because your students need for you to be as good as you can. And, you know, and there was—I had a group of people around me, colleagues that were quite supportive and quite encouraging to be good teachers and all of us. So I think it was really the environment that promoted my developing my ability to do it. I was grateful to my colleagues and to my students because you learn for your students, you learn so much from your students. I like that—I said I talked to I was I was 68 years old when I retired because I liked it so much, you know, it was very satisfying work.

ML: Do you have any other memorable moments at UC?

MJB: Oh there were lots of memorable, lots of them, you know. [Coughs] And you have your students do things with patients that are so kind and so thoughtful and so helpful. Well, those are memorable moments because they’ve learned, you know, they’ve learned compassion and they’ve learned to use their knowledge to really help people. Those are things that give you a lot of satisfaction. You know.

ML: Great Yes, so we just got right through the questions.

MJB: Okay.

ML: Yeah, so, yeah. Thank you so much.

MJB: You’re welcome. I’ve got to do it. I’m glad you’re doing it because I think it’s really important, you know, for the good things about this college to be known.