Patricia Frese

PF: It was very serendipitous. A faculty member, who was one of my instructors, her husband was being transferred for just a year, and they wanted somebody to fill in for her. And getting somebody to fill in in an educational situation is a little bit of a challenge. They knew that I was in a, sorta transitional phase and so they asked me if I would do this. And I was like “sure, why not? I’m in transition, this sounds like a great opportunity, even if it only goes for the year. And so about two quarters , we were on the quarter system then, two quarters into it someone else in the department left. So I was able to take her position and then the position I was filling in for was open when the other instructor came back. So it was really a happy accident.

JS: So you said your instructor contacted you and let you know this space was open, did you keep in touch with your instructor past when you graduated?

PF: Yes, it was only about four years after, but the dental hygiene community is fairly small and fairly tight so you know most of the people pretty closely or you know of them, there are very few people who are in that outer ring that you just have no clue about especially if they went to your program or something like that. So yeah one of my former instructors called me well it’s nice it was a big compliment.

JS: Did you like teaching here?

PF: I loved it. Not all the parts of it, but the majority of the parts of it. It was very, what’s the word, it kept me on my toes. I had some really good students and they would ask exceptional questions and it was like I thought of it that way or I don’t know and let’s find out together so it was very much a continual learning process and a challenge for me to keep ahead of them. So yeah we did I enjoyed it very much.

JS: You mentioned there’s a few things you didn’t like about it? Anything you could note?

PF: I—in any position there’s always the, the politics of it and I don’t care for the politics. I want to do my job I want to do it well. I want to enjoy it and I don’t want to deal with all the other stuff around it and so dental hygiene is primarily women and the instructors were mostly all women at the time and working with a group of women has its challenges, as I’m sure working with anything has challenges, but you know that was part of it. Personalities, budget constraints, I mean just all of those things so that wasn’t my forte but I got through it, it was fine and then it worked.

JS: Have students changed over time?

PF: Yes, there’s been a big change in the demographics of the typical student. Primarily it was white middle class, about 18 or 19 years old and female when I went through the program and then a few years later when I started teaching now the diversity is wonderful, all different ages all different genders all different ethnicities and that brings a wonderful mix to the college and to the program itself so that’s been good.

JS: That’s awesome. What have you noticed the relationship between UC’s main campus and blue ash has been?

PF: I think it’s gotten better over time. We were, we were a branch when we first started and then we became a college and I think that was sort of along the lines of we were a wicked stepchild, now we’re a full part of the family and you know it’s not that bad but it just it needed some time to develop the relationship and I’m glad that we have that umbrella of the University and I’m glad that we’re a college. We have some autonomy and so I think both of those things give us the best of both worlds.

JS: Have you ever spent any time on UC’s main campus?

PF: I did when I took a two-year associate degree here and then—took about a four-year break while I practiced dental hygiene and then I went back to you see main campus for a bachelor’s and then right into a master’s so I have had the educational experience from both sides I only taught at this college but I was a student in both places.

JS: Did you enjoy your time at UC’s main campus?

PF: I did. There were more activities, there were a broader range of people. there were different classes, so it was good to be exposed to both of them. This is my home, this is where I prefer this is my family, but I’m glad I got to go to Clifton.

JS: What are some changes you’ve noticed, you’ve been here quite a while.

PF: Yes, over the 35 years changes there have been changes in the students for the better, there have been changes in the physical plant, we’ve expanded quite a bit, there’s been changes in technology, there’s been changes in—I don’t—I don’t think philosophy or mission is the right word I think the mission has stayed pretty stable but the approach to it has changed as leadership has changed and as the faculty have changed. So that process that evolution has been very good

JS: Can you tell me more about that like how has it changed compared to where it is now?

PF: we used to be—not sure autonomous is quite that might be too strong a word—but we did not have the connection to the Clifton campus, we did not make use of the facilities or the opportunities or whatever and both as students and as faculty, and now I think as the relationship has gotten better and, you know, we’re one big happy family that we do more things with the Clifton campus in the campus parts. I like that the leadership has gotten stronger, both from the faculty leadership perspective as well as the administrative leadership perspective. There’s been changes in levels or titles or duties or things like that, and I think it has opened us up to more opportunities.

JS: What kind of opportunities?

PF: We didn’t use to be on the bus line

JS: Oh wow that’s a big one

PF: Yes so little things like that people from the different campuses people from the different areas they really couldn’t get here unless they had private cars or whatever. So that has been a huge thing opening up that. There was something else that I forgot about it.

JS: Another change you mentioned was technology has technology changed since 1980 or before that?

PF: yeah, it’s just been it’s a huge explosion as you buy something in three days later it’s practically obsolete so imagine that whether 35-40 years it’s mostly been wonderful I think that the changes that have been made in terms of the way that we can deliver our education the way that we can interact with students the way that they can group together and interact the ease with which we can get information we can process information, just as make things a lot better. Technology was supposed to make our lives better and I agree that in this case it certainly made teaching much deeper, much richer, much more accessible to a lot of people. The bus can get people here if they want to be, or online classes can get people right where they are at 2:00 a.m. if that’s what works for them. So, it’s really opened up opportunities for students and faculty because then they can teach it they went online or not so it’s been—unspeakably fabulous.

JS: Has technology help with you teaching in dental hygiene?

PF: oh yes yes yes. just the the small things that used to take a lot of time now are much easier it used to be. I felt like I had to recreate every year there wasn’t really an opportunity to build, and now with things like PowerPoint, I can start it, and then I can refine it, and build on it, then I can change it, even as we’re presenting it and talking about it. And so those kinds of things have made the education that I’m able to deal with the students much deeper, much richer, much more meaningful.

JS: that’s great

PF: Yes

JS: And then another change you mentioned was the physical change and the university has there been different buildings added on?

PF: Yes. Let’s see—but the part that we are actually in now was part of the original building, but it was the dental hygiene

JS: Oh wow

PF: the original dental hygiene clinic and then I think the first iteration was they put the addition on this building over there up, and over then science and allied health building came in, then that building came in the progress hall came in, and I forgot about the Flory Center, the Flory Center was probably here originally but it was as a student center because there this didn’t start so much as a commuter campus, and so people stayed here longer and that was a place for the students to eat and to gather and that sort of thing. And then as the library became a gathering space and people came and went there wasn’t the need for it.

JS: okay

PF: Yes, we’ve really grown

JS: Can you tell that the population of the college itself has grown?

PF: Yes just sort of talking about that we were somewhere in the six hundreds when we 600 students when we first started, and around the time that I was leaving—four or five years ago—we were about 3,000 and now the college is pretty consistently at 5,000 and I think part of it is that we have the physical space to accommodate them. We did not have the space, we had people who wanted to be here, but we keep the classes smaller and so we just couldn’t accommodate and so it’s been nice to accommodate students, people, whatever who want to be here.

JS: Yeah, is it competitive to get it to UC Blue Ash at this point?

PF: The dental hygiene program always was, many of the health programs always were. The College has continued—the college as a whole has continued to refine its entrance criteria and there is still an opportunity for students who may need some remediation from high school, or it’s been a while. So yeah, I think that academic expectancy of what we’re—what we’re wanting the students’ commitment has changed and in a good way.

JS: So I what got you interested in dentistry?

PF: I was in high school, and it was career day time. I was in the ninth grade and there was a dental hygienist and I thought ‘I’m gonna go and hear what she has to say,’ and the connection was immediate. I really do wish I would have remembered who she was or a little bit more about her because she’s given me 40-something year career that I don’t know that I would have gravitated toward without having that connection with her. My background would have probably always been health but I didn’t know where I would be in health and so speaking with her learning about what she did that was that.

JS: What made you want to go into health?

PF: Part of it was family. I have other siblings and they are all in health – in medicine – in dentistry. My dad was a business person, career military and just felt that at the time, and that would open up opportunities for his children and for our children as well, so we were shown all the different things that we could do in health was a big part of it

JS: Why did you think to come UC Blue Ash to study?

PF: A couple different reasons. I had actually been in Bedford Massachusetts and my dad was transferred back here and I was 17, so I wanted to be with him, so I came back here, and UC Blue Ash was the only—was the closest program and I’m very connected to my family, and so I wanted to be at home. I did not want to live someplace else. I didn’t really want to go away to college and the reputation of the dental hygiene program here was and continues to be excellent, so everything I could want right here essentially in my back yard.

JS: Do you think that’s also why students come here? Either to be closer with their family that’s close by or is it because the dental program has such like, a high reputation?

PF: I think it’s both. We do draw from the surrounding area because the closest one is in Dayton and you know, on a good day that’s an hour drive. So you know that takes up time and you know maybe you don’t want to do that. But it does have an excellent reputation and when students look into it I think they see that. We’ve had students come from all over the world to come to the program. Well we had people from Alaska, we’ve had people from Russia, we’ve had people from Canada. So it has a good reputation. Some of those people had some sort of connection to the Cincinnati or to Ohio. Some of them just decided ‘nope, I want to try it on to see what this place is like and hygiene program is excellence that’s great it’s doing well, an interesting group

JS: so we talked about students but has the thought faculty changed over time as well?

PF: I believe so. The Health Careers—as the educational opportunities for us as faculty increased, then we were able to increase our education and bring that back here. Typically in biology and in English you know there are always PhDs, but there wasn’t that kind of educational for dental hygiene, but now there is, and so we’re increasing the quality of our own education and bringing that back here. The camaraderie among the faculty I think continues to be excellent. It was always excellent, but it continues to be an excellent. Again, the diversity—just people coming from different places, different countries, different backgrounds, different approaches, so it’s really increased the richness of the campus the education and the faculty

JS: So there are a lot of different programs here at UC Blue Ash. Do you think that overall as a college having so many programs is positive for it?

PF: I believe so yes. There are multiple opportunities for students that come. If they if they get into a health program like Dental Hygiene and they decide ‘I don’t want to look in somebody’s mouth all day,’ there are other health programs that they can go into. Or if they think you know ‘I want this part of business no I really don’t’ so they can find themselves here, They can also stay in dental hygiene and then go on you get something else here on this campus so I think that’s only been positive we certainly don’t have every program we’re not spread that thin but we have enough that students can find a good match and change if something doesn’t work out for them.

JS: Right. Do you remember any like big events that happened either at this campus or the main campus that you can remember changing?

PF: Well, we’ve had the typical benchmarks the the 20 years, the 25 years, I think we celebrated 50 years, the university is celebrating its 200th somewhere around here. So just the passage of years and still being successful, and still drawing quality students, and getting better and better I think has like I think that’s important. We’ve had changes in leadership which has been wonderful you you know you celebrate the new president, you celebrate the new dean of the college, so those kinds of things have been changes and positive changes that have impacted us.

JS: Were you working here or going to school here when the university changed from a municipal school to a state college?

PF: I don’t know. I don’t know when that happened. I know that UC Blue Ash when it was Raymond Walters college was a branch of the University and we changed to a college of the University. I don’t know the mechanism of that or exactly—you know—what that means but I do remember being here during that time as a faculty member. But I am not familiar with municipal to the whatever you said [laughs]

JS: Yeah of course. When you went when UC was changed from a well to a branch you know out of the main campus what were the differences you noticed?

PF: More inclusion. We became more a part of the UC family, there was more collaboration there was always cooperation, but I think there were more opportunities than to—you know—talk with my English counterpart or my health counterpart. There’s not a dental hygiene program down there, but there are other health programs, so I think that merging us under the umbrella of the University was a positive thing for the faculty. Access to more resources and a positive thing for the students. Again, for the same thing, access to more resources, just the opportunity to enjoy some of the fun things that the university has to offer the students.

JS: How do you feel about the unionization of the faculty with the AAUP?

PF: Well I’m not quite as familiar, but I think we were always—maybe not I don’t know—it’s been AAUP for so long that I don’t remember exactly when we converted over. Like anything a union, has positive effects and maybe not so positive. It gave us strength the numbers, it gave us opportunities to collaborate. Sometimes it gave us the opportunity to make changes in a hard way. There were some strikes, and they did impact this college—but sometimes you need that strong show before you can get the change that you want. Overall I think it’s been very positive and we had several members of the faculty here who were heavily involved in the AAUP structure and were able to continue to increase the visibility of this college to all of the other colleges of the University, and that was that was really important and really beneficial yeah.

JS: Were you present at the protests? Can you remember any specifically?

PF: I remember I went on strike one time, so yeah. [laughs]

JS: How was that?

PF: It was really a struggle, because in dental hygiene you need that daily practice, you need to get in so much information. I think it was maybe a week or ten days when we didn’t have classes but it was really a dilemma. You know, how do I serve my students but how do I serve them immediately now with this class, or do I hold back so that I can get better and impact them bigger down the road? We kind of did a balance in dental hygiene. There wasn’t as much technology at that time so there wasn’t an ability to really do too much with that, but afterward when we came back to class, we just said you know, ‘here’s some opportunities to make up, you need this information how do you want to get it?’ So, we worked collaboratively to get the information to the students yeah.

JS: How did the protest end? Did you get what she wanted out of it? Was it was a successful?

PF: Well it must have been successful because we’re not striking anymore a little ways with these kinds of things negotiation and you know you gotta, you gotta find the balance and we found the balance.

JS: That’s good.

PF: Yes.

JS: Where do you see Blue Ash going into the future like, do you think it’s continuing on this upward?

PF: Yes upward, yes I think it’s going to continue to get bigger, it’s going to continue to grow physically as there is—financial resources for that. It’s going to get stronger. I think that there will be more opportunities for students to complete bachelor’s degrees here, whereas previously many of them had to go down to the Clifton campus. I don’t think we’re going to get to the master’s degree level, but I don’t think that’s a problem. The technology—there, there are a number of faculty here who absolutely embrace technology and they’re the first to use it and first to show the rest of us how to use it, and I think as technology changes and does more and more it’s going to continue to be integrated. So yeah, I think it’s totally going up. We’re going to get bigger, but I am confident that we’re not going to get so big that we’ll lose the quality in the community that we get from being smaller.

JS: Right. What’s your favorite memory from being a teacher here?

PF: I call it my “AHA” experience, and sometimes it happens in the classroom, sometimes it happens outside the classroom, sometimes it happens years later. But the student and you can just see it on their faces you can just see it. They get what this information is truly for, they get what we’re trying to tell, and get it. And it’s not just reciting facts, it’s the culmination of ‘I understand, I know what I’m doing’ and sometimes they come back and they thank me. Oh, it makes it all worthwhile. It just makes it all worthwhile. So, that’s my thing aha experience that I can see on the students faces and really think so that would be that would be.

JS: Did you ever do any research?

PF: I did, still do today. Researching dental hygiene typically is more informational research than lab type research, but I had interests in the area of the effects of oral piercings on oral health, the effects of meth, methamphetamine use, dealing with the patient who has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, working with students to increase their knowledge of terminology. So those are some of the areas that I expanded out into, did some lecturing on outside the college did some writing on for other dental hygienists so yeah.

JS: Do you feel like your research got in the way of your teaching in or was it was pretty easy to balance?

PF: No, that was one of the personal benefits of this College. The mission, the mission is teaching, where I think it’s some of the larger universities have been probably down on the main campus, the emphasis is a little more research published. I had those requirements too, but my benchmark personally and for of the college was the teaching part. So that was great. No I don’t think it got in the way. I think it was a good balance. I think it made me better in my teaching when I was able to look at something, think about teaching myself, how I learned, and then incorporating that back in the students. So yeah, that was a good thing.

JS: What was your favorite thing to research? I know you named a few but which ones stuck out the most?

PF: Oral piercings!

JS: Oral piercings?

PF: Wow [laughs] it’s like, ‘yikes!’ Just it’s like it was an area that was really, really unfamiliar to me and that was and continues to gain popularity with—everybody—students, patients, that sort of thing. So, being able to have the information to talk to people who might be considering a piercing, because especially with an oral piercing, they don’t really think about it. Teeth, for a lot of people are not really important it’s like hair and nails, big whoopie, but there are a lot of things that can be impacted by oral piercings, oral jewelry so that was my favorite.

JS: Like what?

PF: Like a tongue piercing. Yes, a simple tongue stud. The tongue is very vascular. There’s a lot of bleeding, so you’ve got to watch that. There’s a lot of opportunity for infections. Then with the tongue stud with, those ball type, they—people will play with that click it on their teeth they’ll click it around and you can actually see people losing a little arch shape and these two front teeth and these two bottom teeth because they continue to play with it there. So I want people to make informed decisions about those things. I’m not telling you what to do but I want you to be able to make an informed decision for yourself and so having that information. I think made some people go ‘I didn’t think about I think I’ll go think about that before I do or don’t do it.’

JS: Sounds very helpful. Did you do a lot of like interviewing or what did you-how did you to conduct your research?

PF: I talked to a piercer. Probably, probably should go to the source. And he was very helpful, did research literature, researches talk to other people, read a lot of different things, but I think the the thing that was the the most helpful particular in the beginning was talking to a professional piercer.

JS: What they say?

PF: Well first of all, I didn’t know there was such thing as a professional piercer. So it was—you know—they have standards too—they are a health care provider, and they have things that they need to follow. Their education is a little bit different but they talk about apprenticing with someone who has been doing these things for a while, setting up offices, all the kinds of things that—you know—I don’t know that anybody really thought about. How clean is that place, do they sterilize stuff, what kind of jewelry should I be putting in there? Metal, plastic? What kind of metal? Can I leave it out? And so, he had the background knowledge from his experiences to be very clear and concise about, this is the best way. The techniques. I mean, I just, I never thought about—you know—I have my ears pierced. I had two piercings, they were done 50 something years ago. They did it with a gun—you know—that’s let’s talk. I don’t know what they’re doing now, but I asked him about—you know—do you use a gun like that, and no! You do not use it for piercing. Okay, no, some things are different. And just the different types of jewelry. I never really thought about the style of jewelry and the way it was made and how you fit it together, and you know you want something that stays fit together so you don’t swallow it.

JS: Okay so coming out that like a dental hygienist like perspective do you feel like you has a lot more depth, I don’t know.

PF: Let me see if I’m gonna answer this correctly as a dental hygienist I had about half the story.

JS: yeah

PF: and then he helped me to see the other parts of the story that I needed. I wouldn’t have been able to understand it as fully I don’t think if I didn’t have the dental background, and that’s why I felt it was important to talk to patients about it, because they don’t really have that dental background. They’re looking at it for fashion or inclusion or rebellion or whatever else reason. And so having both the technical part and the dental hygiene part of it made me a better source of information.

JS: Right so change of topic, you went to UC Blue Ash before you became a teacher

PF: Yes

JS: How was student life at UC Blue Ash back then? What year was that when you came here?

PF: Let’s see, I started here in 1974 and I graduated in 76. There were—some students took the program in three years some people took it in two, I took it in two. I have bachelor’s degree and master’s degree, and without a doubt, the two years of my dental hygiene program was the most challenging about educational career. [JS laughs] I know. And for a number of reasons. Number one, I know some English or I know some history, I know some biology. I didn’t know anything about teeth, and I had to learn everything in order to be a licensed professional and pass written and clinical boards in order to get a license. So high school [gestures up] I was starting at the kindergarten level [gestures down]. There are a lot of expectations because of the accreditation process. The program has to provide certain experiences that’s in order for the program to be accredited, so there was no give. You had to do these things, and I can remember—I didn’t work when I was a student, and they probably aren’t very many students now who say that. There just wasn’t time. I can remember spending forty hours on this campus with classes, and clinics, and then going home and studying and—you know—it was it was busy it was a lot.

JS: Did you have any time for—what would you do for fun? Did you have any time for fun?

PF: [Laughs] you gotta make time for fun. You gotta eat, you gotta sleep, you gotta see your friends you gotta have, you gotta have some fun. But I wanted to restructure some things. You know, fun was not doing nothing or playing around or whatever, for days at a time. It was like—okay go to a movie for two hours read a book for a couple of hours. Saturday morning, sleep in a little. So you really did kind of tuck it in. You had your schedule there was dental hygiene and a big bunch of it and you put things in. I had good family support, and I think that when you embark on a journey like dental hygiene or any of the professional programs, or probably any educational program, you need a support system and so my family was wonderful. I did live at home, so I didn’t have to worry about doing my own laundry and fixing my own meals and—you know—that takes time if you have to do that for yourself. So while I contributed to the to the family life, I didn’t have to spend time taking care of myself in that manner and now so.

JS: Do you think you could have done it if you didn’t have that family support system?

PF: Oh I’da done it [laughs]. It wouldn’t have been as pretty, wouldn’t it have been as quality maybe, and it certainly wouldn’t have been easy. And students do it now, other students have different situations and—you know—you do what you gotta do.

JS: Was the dental hygiene program more difficult when you were in it than it is now or is it easier?

PF: Well it certainly isn’t easier good enough so then the choice is the same or more difficult.–It’s different. Let’s just say that there are things like technology that makes some of those parts a little easier. There are—things like learning facts, and learning skills, and doing the practice, that really don’t get any easier. They’re just too many better, different, other ways to learn some of those things so I think in terms of difficulty it’s probably about the same. The program is a little bit more flexible so that students can take it in in more than two years, because there’s a lot of single mothers, or mothers who—women who are married who have children and so they’re responsible for other people and a 40-hour week just really is not possible. So, we expanded it out a little bit so that people could just make it a little easier on themselves.

JS: Did you take any other classes for other things or, how does the program work or you only take dental hygiene courses?

PF: You only take—I only took dental hygiene courses that were necessary for graduation. Now, those courses included a core of dental hygiene classes plus biology, anatomy and physiology, chemistry, English, psych, sosh, speech. Some other electives so there’s the the core of the dental hygiene curriculum and then there is the—liberal arts piece that is, is part of getting an associate degree. So yeah, we took other things, but—honestly, right in the beginning for sure it was all what do I need to graduate. It’s enough, I’m not going to take anything more until I get it under control.

JS: what’s your favorite class, do you remember? Or you didn’t have one?

PF: Yeah, dental hygiene of course. I—there were some—the clinical piece of it was was quite a bit, and I enjoyed that it was learning a skill with the knowledge behind it and that was something that I really hadn’t had really devoted that kind of time and attention and energy to learning a new skill in my adult life. You know you learn to ride a bike, you’re done, you learn to do this you’re done, that this was okay, it’s gonna be your career. So those were good. And I love the sciences, the biology, the chemistry, the anatomy and physiology, microbiology. There –I can still see the instructors in my mind who taught me this, and they who were challenging. They challenged you then, they wanted you to be the best that you could be, and I really appreciated that.

JS: So you enjoyed the challenge?

PF: Yes, yes.

JS: Have you always liked science?

PF: Yes. Yeah. I—that’s where my mind goes, that’s where my interest is. That is a strength of mine. My creativity is—a little lacking. I don’t really see myself as an artist, or a musician, or anything like that. I mean, that part of my brain is needing—more development. While I enjoy those things, I can’t see my, I can’t see my—I can’t see it as a career. So science was my thing, yeah.

JS: Did you have a favorite instructor?

PF: There are a couple of them in dental hygiene, and there were a couple of them outside in the area of biology. It was Diederich Dejong, and he was an exceptional man. He was one of those rare people that have the science, but he also had that artistic. And, he had a music program on one of the like wguc or wvxu, and had a music program. And so he would talk about music and play music, and all the classical, and incorporate all that, and it’s like man. You have such a logical, scientific, mind and then you speak just as eloquently about the art of it. He challenged me there—you know—he asked me questions even when I was trying not to be picked [JS Laughs] but never in an uncomfortable way. I just felt like some of the instructors would really know that you just needed a little more encouragement and they would give me that. And then in the dental hygiene program itself, Nancy Jackson she was also an exceptional, exceptional instructor. Delightful woman. Just had the ability to put you at ease She complimented you, and didn’t backdoor it with ‘but.’ [JS Laughs] You know. The compliment stood on its own and when you needed—encouragement to do better, she can do that in a very positive way, and that is an art if you will. Because sometimes it’s too direct, and it’s too harsh, and it’s too demeaning too student, and I don’t respond to that, and I never wanted to be the one who projected that to a student. So I always tried, and I think I very well succeeded, to have the positive when we were having any type of interactions even if it wasn’t the best thing I’d ever seen, there were good parts, and now let’s work on what we can improve.

JS: Did you either one of them inspire you to be a professor?

PF: — I don’t think so. That is not where I saw myself.

JS: Yeah.

PF: and I think it was just a happy accident, because I had gotten my dental hygiene degree, I’d worked for a little while, then I went back to school and I was right in that finishing up he bachelors, starting the masters, and they called and said, ‘hey would you like to do this?’ And I didn’t know exactly where I was going to be, and it just seemed like, ‘here’s your gift open it up!’ And so I—you know—it’s, it’s not a long-term commitment. They’re happy to have me because getting someone in the middle of an academic year to go to the middle of another academic year continues to be a challenge, so it was like, ‘okay this might just work out for everybody and even if it doesn’t—you know—I probably am not going to cause any problems.’ So it was just—it just—I can remember. I was outside, it was in the fall, and it was a beautiful fall day. I was out in my backyard raking leaves, and my dad said, ‘hey there’s a phone call for you it’s like really you need to come in and take this its someone from school.’ I’m so glad I did [Both Laugh]

JS: And you expected to just be like a temporary thing?

PF: Absolutely. It was it was going to be for a year, three quarters because we were on the quarter system at the time, It’s going to be from January 1 80 to January 1 of 81. You just never know, you never know.

JS: If you were going to teaching, what were you planning on doing?

PF: I hadn’t yet gotten there. Dental Hygiene allows you to practice in a number of different settings, and I practiced in a general practice where we see all different ages and all different levels of health. I practiced in a pediatric office with the little bitty kitties. I practiced in a perio office where it’s primarily adults, but they have very challenging oral health situations. I did some research at P&G, where they were developing a new product or whatever, and I would be a part of that study. And I also did something that was kind of off the beaten path, I was an oral surgical assistant. And I loved it, it was wonderful. I know that sounds weird, but I mean it. From just simple extractions of wisdom teeth, third molars, to some of the life-changing surgeries where somebody’s jaw is mal-positioned and we move that up and back, or their, their mid-face, their upper jaw was too far back and we dropped that down and moved it forward. And just to see how that could be done, and the changes that it made for them—emotionally and physically—It was like wow, I want to continue to be a part of that. And I did that for probably about five years, on and off, and then they just needed me more than I could devote so I sadly had to say goodbye to that. But it have wonderful memories of that.

JS: Do wish you did something like that, or pursued like almost oral surgery really as a career?

PF: I don’t think so. I did think about it. It’s it’s a very challenging, challenging educational program. A lot of years. Not as many opportunities for women to do that then as there is now. Some of it was physical. I didn’t really know that I had the physical height, or the physical strength to do some of those things, because we were literally breaking jaws to shift these things and making breaks to do that. So it was some fairly trying—even extract or pulling a tooth sometimes. It’s like you need some strength, and at that time I just I didn’t see that as myself, or to that for myself. I also felt that it would be a challenge to do that as a woman and still have a family. Again, we’re talking a good long while back where—you know—the woman having it all was still not quite happening. So, I just I didn’t compromise. I found my place in all of that and I’m absolutely delighted. I wouldn’t have changed it.

JS: That’s amazing.

PF: It really is. I mean, when I think about some of the career changes that people go through, and how many jobs they have in all of that. I’ve stayed the same career. I did change physical locations, but it was the same career, and I think that’s—that’s a credit to this program and to the career itself, that it provided more than 40 years of, yay, I love this job [Both Laugh].

JS: So you mentioned at least with the oral surgery that it wasn’t really a job for women so much, or that it was harder for them to get into it. Did you ever run into any issues of sexism, whether in your job here, or when you’re going to school here, or in a job somewhere else while you were in the between years?

PF: I didn’t. Sometimes when I think about what is out there now—maybe I should have thought of that, but my opinion is some of that is in the eye of the relationship [gestures back and forth], and I never felt that anybody went further than they should have. I never felt uncomfortable, and dental hygiene is typically practiced in a smaller office. Usually there is a dentist, a hygienist, and assistant or a receptionist and maybe a couple of other people, so those things can get a little uncomfortable if there is that kind of tension. And I was young, I never—I never felt uncomfortable. And I’m glad for it, because I would not want to have that in my background.

JS: That’s good.

PF: Yeah.

JS: Did you ever—we talked about the administration kind of, and you’ve already said good things about them, so there were never any problems with administration?

PF: Oh sure [Both laugh], sure there were, sure there were! Were they noteworthy? Maybe at the time. A little frustrating. Nothing that made me leave.

JS: Right.

PF: You know when sometimes you have to look at it, ‘okay it’s this or it’s this, and how do I feel about that?’ You know—some of it’s growing pains—you know—the college was growing, I was growing, and some of it—you just you know—gotta find your place in it. So they were, they were surmountable challenges, and I just think they were somewhat necessary. There wasn’t anything that I thought, ‘ugh I can’t stand it, I can’t stand it!’ Or before I got to that point, we resolved it.

JS: anything specific or just that big, or were they small issues?

PF: There’s always personal issues, there’s always budgetary issues,, there’s always space issues there’s—you know—those, those kinds of things. But they just—they’re in every job, they’re in every career, they’re in every facet of your life, you know? [Laughs] So, nothing, nothing worth mentioning

JS: How has the relationship between like, faculty and students changed over the years? Or is it the same, or has it gotten better?

PF: —— In dental hygiene because we were such a small group, and because there were all of us together, all of the time, and for the two years

JS: Right

PF: You, you just had to get along. It just was too uncomfortable to have big clashes. Now it wasn’t all ice-cream and lollipops. There were faculty to faculty disagreements, there were student to student disagreements, there were certainly faculty and student disagreements. But I think we all had the skills and the personalities to say, ‘fix it or forget it.’ You know—we are going to be together, so how are we going to get through it? I know that other faculty may have had a little bit more of a problem with students, because their’s—their—their students were mixed—you know—there were psych majors in the nursing, and some dental hygiene people, and all of that, and there were varied levels of—dedication of the students. And our dental hygiene students knew that you had to be dedicated to this or they weren’t going to make it. And it’s a significant investment upfront of time, and money, and energy, and so there was more of a willingness to do what needed to be done, and I think I can definitely remember other faculty members saying—you know—’some of my students don’t show up.’ You know—’they don’t, they don’t call, they don’t—whatever.’ They didn’t have attendance policies. We had attendance policies. You needed to be there or you needed to tell me why you weren’t going to be there. And I needed somebody else documenting your excuse, not just you [Laughs]. It was different, and I’m glad because I like that. I like that dedication of students. I would not have been as comfortable with teaching in another area.

JS: So the attendance policies really, like you’d have to show up or it affects like, you’re grade, or do you, can you get kicked out for not not enough attendance or?

PF: All of that.

JS: All of that?

PF: Yeah, because the, the accreditation standards say the students have to have a certain amount of patient contact, and they have, have to have a student amount of, a certain amount of student to student contact. Because sometimes the students work on each other, and then sometimes they have to work on other people. It’s a skill, you have to practice it, you can’t just—you know—say, ‘oh, well today the subject is history from the 1800s, I can read it at home, I can watch the video. No. you need to be here. I need to see the skill. I need to see the progression of the skill. So—brain fart. What was I saying? The dedication of the students, the attendance policies, those things impacted the students because we had the accreditation standards, so they were made aware of the policies and—you know—there’s emergencies, but [shrugs] you can’t have an emergency every day.

JS: Yeah. Did the accreditation requirements for the program itself like, keep it from being an online class? Does it keep very much a, like, lecture class or well I don’t know what I would call it but not an online class?

PF: Some of it can be online [okay] but some of it needs to be in a lab setting or in a clinic setting. And that’s wonderful, because I really don’t want you to learn how to clean my teeth [Laughs] at home [JS laughs] in your spare time. Can you hear those commercials? ‘At home in your spare time learn how to be a…’ No thank you. So, you know, there, there are ways to deliver part of the program in a non-traditional way but then some of it needs to be—it just needs to be face-to-face.

JS: What was your favorite part about teaching, the more like hands-on portions, or the more like informational portions of your class?

PF: I think I liked it both. I think they were both equally important and equally enjoyable to me, because they are—to me they’re bound together. I—when you’re learning a skill I don’t want you to do the skill without thinking. I want you to have the knowledge behind why are you doing this so that you understand the importance of choosing the right instrument, choosing the correct angulation, keeping your instruments in good working order. If you don’t have that knowledge background, those things might not be as important to you, What happens if the patient can’t lay back, or if the patient has to stand up, or if the patient can’t open? You know—how do you make those adaptations to every individual patient? They all—everybody needs the individualized care and instruction, and that knowledge and the skill just gets you the armamentarium to do that, all of the ammunition to get right to what that person needs and speak to them, meet them right where they are and take them where they need to go oral health-wise. So I liked them both.

JS: That’s awesome. Do you think that you see Blue Ash, or just don’t think overall UC organization like, responded to any of your needs, like salary or anything or resources? Did they give you what you needed to teach?

PF: Within reason, certainly. I mean I never felt like I was having to buy my own pencils, so—you know—like some of the elementary and lower grade students—you know—you hear about that. And UC-Blue Ash—I don’t know exactly how the funding worked and all of that, but we got technology pretty reasonably, we got reasonably good technology, we had good IT instructors who are teaching people to do, and also IT support who would help us with the problems. We had good on both of those accounts. And so, they would strive to bring in the most technology and make sure that we understood how to use it and could do. So I think, within reason, they absolutely did meet my needs in those areas. I cannot recall anything that I really needed that I didn’t have access to, and because of some gifts from the private sector to the dental hygiene program itself, there’s been huge leaps in the technology. And so that’s a lot of students to have even access to better stuff so that’s been nice.

JS: Has there been any disappointments with, with UC or with anything while you taught here?

PF: There’s one group that kind of sticks in my mind. Everybody comes from different situations and, and I don’t know all of their life stories or what’s going on, but it was always disheartening to me when a promising student had to leave the program. Sometimes I knew what was happening, sometimes I didn’t know. I respected whatever the student wanted or didn’t want to tell me. But I, I always felt a little, ‘gee. You know—this would have been good for them and they certainly would have been a good for the profession. But I support your decision I want you to go, I want you to be happy. I’m sorry this isn’t working out for you for whatever reason.’ I don’t think—that’s, that’s my biggest disappointment, is not—I don’t think there was anything else I could do. I don’t think it was anything that I did, but I just didn’t like the situation that they ended up in.

JS: Like a forfeit of potential”

PF: Yeah it is, it really is. But I’m sure that they’ve done wonderfully—you know—I haven’t—there were about three students like, that and I—I don’t—I never saw them again so I don’t know what happened in my Pollyanna mind thinking they’re happy doing whatever. [Both laugh]

JS: Is there anything else do you want to talk about? Through your whole career at UC is a faculty member or as a student?

PF: Just to reiterate again—just to reiterate again that I am very pleased with the quality of the education that I received as a student and I was—I am very pleased with the support that I got as a faculty member. And I enjoyed all of the years, I would absolutely do it over again. And based on most of the comments that I’ve gotten back from students, I think that I made a positive difference for them, and especially in the area of making them feel good about themselves, telling them in a positive way how they could be better. And that was a crucial thing for me. I did not ever want to break a student down, I always wanted to approach them positively, and ‘let’s go further,’ so that’s my story and I’m sticking to it! [Both laugh]

JS: Thank you so much

PF: Oh, it was my pleasure Thank you.